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Wanderlust Editor Don George talks with Paul Theroux about Hong Kong's troubled times to come. BY DON GEORGE | i caught up with Paul Theroux recently when he was in San Francisco promoting his new novel, "Kowloon Tong," a timely tale set in Hong Kong of two British expatriates suddenly being forced to face the consequences of the impending political handover. A constant visitor to Hong Kong over the past two decades, Theroux had just been in the city researching an article for the New Yorker. As an American who has lived in both the Far East and England, Theroux brings a distinctively intimate knowledge and perspective to the Hong Kong question, and he talks about the fate of the soon-to-be former colony with compelling passion. When you were in Hong Kong did you feel that there was tremendous apprehension on the part of the residents, pretty much across all the layers of culture? Yes, there is. There was when I was there two months ago. But the people are not talkative. I mean the Chinese people in Hong Kong are less vocal. So they were more apprehensive, more audibly apprehensive a year ago when I was there. As the time has gotten short they are less talkative. Businessmen were talking it up, though. "Everything is going to be OK. Everything is fine, don't worry about it." Really? Yes. Chinese and foreign businessmen? Yes. Because lots of business is good and business will probably continue to be good. But human rights won't continue to be good. The problem is that there is a slight change in that there have been elections. The past few years there have been elections. And that is going to stop. If there were any fairness in the world, Hong Kong wouldn't be returned to China. It would be independent. It would be the most dynamic country on earth, probably, if it were allowed to go its own way. It would be beyond Singapore. It would be great. There is no point in even thinking about something like that, I suppose. The forces lined up against that happening are so huge. Yes. But it could have happened. China totally would have resisted it. Now I think that without question China will make a bid to take over Taiwan. Really? I am sure they will. I am sure of that. In our lifetime it will happen. Under what circumstances? They will as reunification. Militarily? I don't know. One way or the other. Don't you think? I don't know. I don't think so. Well, they talk about it. People in Hong Kong talk about it.
Last year, when they held an election, the Chinese decided to hold a military exercise. Remember? March '96. That's right. And what was the reaction? Do you remember? On the part of the U.S., for example? We held some kind of maneuvers. We sent some of our Pacific fleet. So we did react to a certain extent. But I suppose Taiwan might have no international protector. I am wondering, when you talk with the businessmen in Hong Kong, do you think they are just being brave when they say they are optimistic? It would be self-defeating for them to say, well, we are pessimistic about the future. Well, they are doing what businessmen do, which is to say, our tires will last a lifetime. Our refrigerator is the best refrigerator. Right. It's salesmanship. Exactly. It's salesmanship. They are doing the only thing that they can possibly do, which is to get in there and talk it up because it is good for business. In the past, when morale has been low, the stock market has really taken a hit. And through the negotiations, the 22 years of negotiations over the handover, there have been fears just for the stock market. There have been six significant dips, and almost a complete crash one time. That, no one wants. Least of all China. China has got a lot of money invested in it. I don't think business will be bad. To that extent, I think the businessmen are right. But businessmen are the same people who were saying that Tiananmen Square was an internal matter with China. I think that the flow of information affects everything and that people could say, oh it doesn't really matter. But it does matter, in a free society. San Francisco actually is a classic example of freedom in all areas, freeing people's minds. And people produce a lot here. A lot of different things. Are you in any way sanguine about Hong Kong? I don't know what will happen. I am hopeful, but I think that it will be very Chinese. I think that no matter what happens, it will be duller. Business may be good, but it will lose something. It will be more like a Chinese city than Hong Kong. It is not a British city. It is not even a colonial city. It has a life that is quite different from that. And the Chinese have a heavy hand on places, say Tibet, so it is a lot like Tibet. People ask: Would Tibet be better off if the Chinese had left them alone? Of course it would be better off. For one thing, the Dalai Lama would be there. And there is a business equivalent too. With the handover looming, a number of the most important British firms that were historically headquartered in Hong Kong have moved their head offices to other places -- the Bahamas, for example. So there has been a downside in terms of business. But on the other hand, I would say that it will go on being prosperous. I don't think that is a big prediction to make. But it won't be achieving its full potential, and that is a shame. Because there are so many intelligent people and lively people and people work very hard. They work a seven-day week. It is normal to work seven days a week. And that is definitely a shame. Yes, right. I think you are absolutely right about it breeding creativity. The whole Hong Kong film industry is incredibly explosive and dynamic. I can't imagine that happening under Chinese rule. They will also have to submit the films to a Chinese censor. Things will have to be approved. So it means a lot of bureaucracy that wasn't there before. Which is sort of an a priori, that will automatically keep certain people from doing it just because it's a pain to do it. They would rather put their energy someplace else. And can you imagine a film being made about Chinese history, or recent history, without being subjected to some sort of control? I mean, that would just be inconceivable. So there will be a party line. That is something you don't want to see. But it will happen. And as you wrote recently in the New Yorker, the education books will be rewritten, so that suddenly the whole history of Tibet will be told from an entirely different point of view. It will be the liberation of Tibet. It will be a poor, backward, feudal people who were liberated by the People's Liberation Army. They routed the Dalai Lama and sent him packing and ... God. I like what you said. If the religion of Hong Kong is business then it is a little bit like the freeing of the Dalai Lama in Tibet that all these big companies have fled from Hong Kong. Do you think there is anything positive about the handover? You know, that is a really good question. Probably, it has meant that the Chinese have invested more. There is a huge amount of money invested in Hong Kong, but perhaps a mere quarter of the cash reserves in Hong Kong are Chinese. Or from the People's Republic. Maybe that wouldn't have happened. On the other hand, maybe it would have happened anyway. It has given people a strange sense of ethnic identity and pride. You know, even people who fear the Chinese, Chinese people in Hong Kong, are saying, "My gosh, look at what they have done. They have tumbled the British." That is really interesting. It is true. There is that sense: My god, finally, after all these years. Very interesting irony. And the activist Harry Wu, who I heard speak a month ago, spoke of his pride that Hong Kong was returning to the motherland. Yes, he called it the motherland. The Chinese have a sense of the motherland and a pride in it. I mean, he spent 20 years in prison and he said he was proud. That's bizarre, feeling pride about the exact regime that had imprisoned him for years. I thought there was a contradiction but I can explain it only in terms of ethnic pride. In the abstract. But the fact is they are going to have the People's Liberation Army there, 4,000 of them. There will also be police. I mean there is a Hong Kong police. So that will be in addition to the regular police. You raised a point, too, in your story, about journalism and the whole business of censorship and self-editing. As you say, there is a pretty rigorous journalistic history right now in Hong Kong. But I can't imagine that continuing under the Chinese. No. As a matter of fact, it has probably begun to diminish even in the past five years. Because no one wants to be conspicuous. I think so. Some people I know who used to work at the South China Morning Post say that they could already feel it changing a few years ago. Just the way stories were approached and ... That is the trouble with a dictatorship and an authoritarian government. You really have to be a faceless person. Don't rock the boat. Anyone who rocks the boat is in trouble because the distinguishing fact or feature of an authoritarian government is its inefficiency. It is hard to single people out. But if you single yourself out, then you are kind of committing suicide, because you are making their job easier for them. So a journalist who picks a fight will have a problem. You have made yourself a target. Yes. For example, I only got one review of my new novel, which is set in Hong Kong and revolves around the handover. The review was by a Chinese fellow, and he gave me a very bad review. And I am sure that was because to give this book a good review in Hong Kong would be politically a bad move. I think so. Do you think that there may be repercussions for you as a traveler? Well, I don't know. It is possible. But I also think, as I said, I think they are inefficient. What would they do? They would have to read it, make a decision. They would have to do something. And people don't really like doing that. Would my name be in a computer? I don't know. That would be kind of interesting. You should try going to Hong Kong just to see what happens. We'll see. On a larger scale, certainly there will be all kinds of changes. They won't happen immediately -- not dramatic changes. But if you think in terms of worst case scenarios -- well, if you are going to shoot someone, if you are going to have a public execution, Hong Kong is full of places to have public executions. Happy Valley, for example. You could televise it. You know, "Comrades, for the glorious good of the people, we are executing ..."
- BOOKS | To learn about books on China by Paul Theroux and other authors, browse through our China Booklist. - TABLE TALK | What do you think the future holds for Hong Kong? Will it be better off under Chinese rule than it was under the British? Join the debate in Table Talk. - TRAVEL | Planning a trip to Hong Kong after the changeover? Get all the information you'll need in Wanderlust Marketplace's thorough Hong Kong coverage. - - - - - - - - - - - - Salon Wanderlust is published every Monday evening at 6 p.m. PDT in Salon. Send all reader mail to wanderlust@salonmagazine.com. To receive a colorful weekly update on what's happening in Wanderlust, sign up here. Published articles are housed in the Wanderlust archives. |
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